Omega

Is the Cal.267 movement in 1956 Geneve considered a "Certified Chronometer"?

I'm an old motor-head and engines count. Thanx for sharring your knowledge, Miki

.... Very few manual-wind movements were submitted for certification by Omega after the introduction of the Constellation line in 1952.  I've seen a couple of certified Geneves, but I believe these were automatics.

No reason a good watchmaker couldn't get any 30mm movements tuned up to the old COSC standard.  All it takes is time.

Hope this helps,

gatorcpa

Hi Miki,

I have never heard of a chronometer rated cal. 267 so far...  

there was a cal 262 as the successor of the 30T2Rg but looks very similar.

There was a manual cal. 602 which was chronometer rated...

kind regards

erich

The designations '262' and '281' for the Rg models were just "paper" codes. The system was introduced to minimize making mistakes when ordering parts. In fact no Rg movements were ever produced with this 3-digit code marking.

For a long time I did believe  the same applied to 260 and 280 marked movements, this only being a retrospective nomenclature. But then surprisingly I found some examples and research revealed that a small series of up to 3000 pieces had indeed been manufactured.

Ben.

were used on spare parts, at least.

These are two NOS barrel bridges. Notice the calibre designations, and the lack of serial numbers.

grumio

Never seen this before - another piece of information and again a lesson learned.  Probably all the basic production plates were made before 1947/ 48 and these particular parts after that period. Maybe the idea was carrying-on with production of the 30mm Chronometrès well into the Fifties, which was then somehow reconsidered because of  excellent sales of the blossoming 'Automatic' Chronometers?

thanks,  Ben.

but I would guess they are probably a lot later than the main production run of the 30mm Rg chronometers.

grumio

..fron the watchmaker and our ideas are confirmed Grumio. He was able to trace the parts in his literature for which he found a production date of 1954.

Indeed quite some later!

Ben.

Hi Ben, 

I have seen a cal. 262 watch on the net some time ago - I think they did exist - not only on the paper.

Sorry that I did not save the picture.

Concerning 280 - I have one in my collection...

kind regards

erich

.. that plates with engraved 3-digits do exist, so we may assume now they were used one time or another, albeit even as a spare part. I will bet however they are as rare as hen's teeth. A picture would be really worthwhile, next time you must store it!

There is a nice 280 in my collection as well, but no 260 as of yet...

Ben.

Hi

I also remember seeing a 262 , but the serial number was odd .... I got a see if I kept a copy of it somewhere....

More interesting stuff everyday....

Good hunting

Bill Sohne

hello everyone...


Just found two photos of one movement with a "R" serial number, maybe ""R" is a replacement  s/n ?

any thoughts?







Good Hunting

Bill Sohne

Hi Bill,

glad that at least you stored the pictures - they are great proof indeed!

But the odd serial# leaves several question marks anyway...

We never stop learning in the wide field of Omegas  

kind regards

Erich

 

Hi guys.

as afficionados of the brand we would like to think that certain details of various models and pieces are (or were) always clearly structured, logically organised according to a fixed pattern. A collector generally likes a degree of order in the system, so he can keep-up the overal view and grasp what he holds in his hands. Well, dream on.... After showing an experienced watchmaker the R-numbered '262' pic's from earlier in this thread, he remarked:

"Begin Seventies when I started with Omega in the Service & Repair department, this was common practice and normal procedure. From the factory they did send us, among others, these R- (replacement) movements. Series-production of the various movements was considered to be of vital importance by Bienne. And great numbers of movements were bought-in by the agent. As a matter of fact we kept what we called a "Movement Bank", strongly recommended by the mother-factory. Pieces being fixed after having complaints, were also put in this Bank. Everything was mixed and swapped - original watch-works were changed with repaired ones (and thus with a different serial...). Even the type of caliber was considered being of secondary importance... a Chronometer works was easily exchanged with a standard one, for instance a 564 against a 565. Nobody really cared so much - things that the customer couldn' t see were unimportant, as long as the watch functioned properly. It was really a kind of jumble, you could almost say that the well-known 'mariages' were started by Omega itself ".

No wonder we are sometimes scratching our heads and do have vivid discussions about certain ' irregularities'. At the same time, this is what often makes it so fascinating when existing puzzles can be solved.

best, Ben.

...what I always suspected was true.  Many times larger authorized Omega shops would use "rotable" spare parts when major repairs were required under warranty.  A rotable is a part which is frequently replaced with a refurbished part to keep the machinery going.  Later, the broken part gets repaired and remains in inventory to be used when the next similar part requires repair.  This system is used quite often in the airline industry to get aircraft back in the air as quickly as possible.

From an economic point of view, this makes a lot of sense.  The customer gets the watch back quickly and the watchmaker can fix the problem with the movement when there is down time later.

It also may explain this "mystery" that appeared on this forum some time ago:

1957 Omega Seamaster with 5 digit serial number?

Thanks Ben,

gatorcpa

The system is also used in the vehicle industry with fuel injection pumps, startermotors, generators, airco compressors etc. And as Bill Sohne was mentioning the other day: "It makes sense from a practical business standpoint. Swap and chop to get a watch back out the door as quickly as possible!"

I do recall the 5-digit mystery now you have mentioned it. Seems somebody forgot the 'R' or to little room later on? Even as detail-obsessed collectors we must now and then relativate and try not to forget that those vintage watches may occasionally have been tampered with (a lot?) in their life-span by the watch trade/ industry.

regards,  Ben.

the prefix R signifies that the movement is overhauled with new spareparts, the original serial was not 'doubled' or repeated on the plate(s) by Omega. On the bottomplate the 30T2Rg engraving is still visible!

Reasoning from the preceding posts, this was probably done somewhere after 1954?  A pleasure to see little bits of information coming together!

Thanks,  Ben.

This message has been edited by DeGeus on 2011-03-16 01:06:13

 .. of a beautiful movement Miki, and still with the screw-balance on board!  The point here is that all descendants in the 30mm family during the Fifties and begin Sixties were engraved with: 265-266-267-268 and finally 269. Their predecessor however, the 30T2PCAM from begin Forties was only labelled 260 (15 jewels) and 261 (17 jewels) IN RETROSPECT.  In contrast to the usual and regular 30T2.. etc. marking under the balance, it would be interesting to see any proof of actual 260 or 261 engraving like the (random photo of a) 280 below. Since the 265 came already out in 1949 they must exist not at all or only very few.

 best,  Ben.

 

However my original concern is that this movement , although listed in Chuck Maddox "Certified list" but not for Geneve. It appears to be listed under miscellaneous, thus not original to the watch. 

To further my delima, the Omega Vintage page nor their Customer Service people are little or no help. Miki